Comments on: Impressions: Kaiba – somewhat better than five fingers and a palm

By: [52] Microcosmic Ergo Proxy: The Paradigmatic Narrative | Super Fanicom

[52] Microcosmic Ergo Proxy: The Paradigmatic Narrative | Super Fanicom — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:32:48 +0000

[...] the narrative of the anime series is contingent upon, first and foremost, the investment of identity. Kaiba would directly challenge such an investment, given its lack of a definitive main, [...]

By: iniksbane

iniksbane — Tue, 13 May 2008 04:27:44 +0000

@taka – You might be right there. It might have an effect later on, but I don’t see it yet. And I agree that I think Kaiba is trying to get across a message, but I’m not sure what type of message it’s trying to get across with it’s main character. The more I think about it, the more it bothers me that I can’t see a reason to make Kaiba the way he is.

By: taka

taka — Mon, 12 May 2008 09:01:07 +0000

I was just thinking that maybe it will have some affect on the Kaiba later on down the road. Such as, he could sit and do nothing for the first half will make him more determined down the other end of the road. This anime is pretty short though and that’d be a pretty dramatic turn around so I don’t know how likely that is. The other concern is the message that the director/writer/producer what have you wants to get across. The frustration felt by the narrator hopefully felt by the viewer with regard to this world and the way it handles memories possibly making the viewer value them more. I don’t think Kaiba was founded purely on entertainment value.

By: iniksbane

iniksbane — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:07:15 +0000

@lelangir – Wow, you just opened up a hole can of worms there. I don’t know if I stated clear enough what I mean about “investing myself in the character”. I’ve always had trouble finding the right metaphor for what I want from a character. But I think the closest way I can put it is that I want to have a relationship with him/her. Now depending on the type of character that type of relation is going to change. But in the case of Kaiba, I don’t feel like there’s a character to have a relationship with (at least not a main character.) Now, I don’t necessarily think that every show HAS to have that, but it’s something that does hurt my enjoyment of the show. Now onto your real question. I’m always a bit torn about experimentation in fiction. It’s always going to be a risk. On a purely mental level, I agree that the idea of breaking the rules of a proper main character is interesting, but it always ends up coming back to what I feel about Joyce and Faulkner. With Joyce, I feel like he broke the rules to break the rules. I don’t feel like there was any meaning to it. Whereas when I read Faulkner, I feel like he’s breaking the rules for a reason (in the case of As I Lay Dying, he did it to demonstrate the divide between the main characters of the story, in my humble opinion.) But that said… I’m not a big fan of either of them. Because usually there isn’t a reason to screw around with the form to get your story across. That said, people still like both of them. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, but I don’t. Now I have to admit, I enjoy Kaiba. But I don’t see any reason to have a main character who’s essentially something of a viewer surrogate. I mean what’s the point?

@DrmChsr0 – I’ll have to give that a shot.

@Michael – Sorry for not replying to your comment up above. Actually my intention was something a bit more crass. But thanks

@taka – If you come up with an answer let me know

By: taka

taka — Fri, 09 May 2008 09:35:53 +0000

I agree that Kaiba doesn’t really get involved that much. However, being able to identify with Kaiba I don’t feel I have a problem with. When he is in his hippo body whenever someone tries to bring him into the drama of the scene we are treated with this extreme close-up of his face, and to me the tension is palatable. He wants to talk, he wants to get involved, but he can’t. I feel the frustration that I think they are attempting to convey whenever he is addressed. I don’t really know what that says about the anime or what the affect of it will be over the course of the series. I’d have to think on it some more.

By: Anime Diet » Kaiba 4 - The Little Prince(ss)?

Anime Diet » Kaiba 4 - The Little Prince(ss)? — Fri, 09 May 2008 06:23:51 +0000

[...] observer” of events while the real drama is being played by the characters he helps. (Cameron puts it a bit strongly, but he’s right to observe that we still don’t know that much about Kaiba as a person [...]

By: Michael

Michael — Fri, 09 May 2008 04:50:03 +0000

‘In a Grove’ was awesome. But then that was adapted by Kurosawa, and he perfected the adaptation, too.

By: DrmChsr0

DrmChsr0 — Thu, 08 May 2008 16:41:46 +0000

I like to think of Kaiba as what would have happened if Akutagawa Ryunosuke wrote The Worthing Saga.

Maybe you’d have to read ‘In a Grove’ to understand how the narrative structure works.

By: lelangir

lelangir — Thu, 08 May 2008 14:48:49 +0000

Sorry, I didn’t articulate it clearly. What I mean is that, can an anime be about its meta-physics? Like how Hayate no Gotoku was always breaking the fifth wall and clearly acknowledging that it was an anime, can an anime’s themes be about the communicatve aspects and properties of its medium? That would surely challenge the way we receive the information itself and thus it would challenge everything we know about it. You were saying how you needed a main character through which you would invest your identity, but what if, not necessarily Kaiba, but any anime, were to say “no, figure out a different way to receive this anime, we won’t give you the luxury of the investment of identity.” This wouldn’t be a subtle critique of the outside world, like Kodomo no Jikan, but rather, a satire of the meta – a satire of its viewers and their processes of communication.

By: iniksbane

iniksbane — Thu, 08 May 2008 04:38:43 +0000

@bateszi – I can see your point. And I agree with you in a way. But I do need to at least understand, and I do want a certain amount of drama caused by the main character. I mean a lot of what attracts me to a show are the characters, and when they do stuff I don’t really understand or just don’t do anything, I do get kind of put off. I’d freely say it’s a good show, but I can’t say it’s a great one.

@Owen – To be honest, I’ve only watched Kino. But to expand on what TheBigN said, I’d say Kino is more of a authorial surrogate, whereas Kaiba is a focal point for the camera.

@Babel – Well someone had to say it. I mean I do agree with the idea of experience it for yourself, but these are primarily my thoughts.

@lelangir – I hate to sound stupid. I mean it happens a lot, but I’m kind of confused about what you said.